The Clutter-free Mind Show

Your brain wasn't built for this: Finding time freedom in a digital world with NJ Shelsby

• Zita Major • Season 1 • Episode 1

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Episode summary

In this episode, we dive into the intersection of time management, neuroscience, and mental clarity with Time Freedom Coach NJ Shelsby. With over 20 years of experience understanding how our modern work environment impacts our brain's ability to focus, NJ shares practical strategies for reclaiming control over our time and reducing overwhelm in our increasingly digital world.

Key topics discussed

  • How our brains aren't built for modern life and the constant influx of information
  • The neuroscience behind feeling constantly behind and overwhelmed
  • NJ's Time Freedom Framework and how it works with our brain's natural rhythms
  • Practical approaches to using AI as a tool for saving time rather than creating more overwhelm
  • The importance of creating boundaries around technology use

Main takeaways

  1. Our brains vs. modern life: Our brains are built for survival, not constant notifications. The same biological process that occurs when we sense danger happens every time our phone dings.

  2. The time freedom framework: 
    • Protect your focus: Put your phone on Do Not Disturb and in another room; schedule specific times to check emails
    • Create time blocks: Set aside 90-minute segments for deep work when your brain can enter a flow state
    • Outsource what you can: Delegate tasks outside your zone of genius, including using AI for suitable tasks
  3. Breaking the phone habit: Checking your phone creates "open loops" in your brain that increase mental load and anxiety. Consider a dopamine detox or incremental changes to break this habit.

Practical tips

  • Don't "just check" your phone or email - always schedule time to both check AND respond
  • Use AI tools to handle repetitive tasks and save hours of work
  • Consider visual reminders (like Zita's "chickpea challenge") to increase awareness of phone usage

Resources mentioned

Connect with NJ Shelsby

  • Website: njshelsby.com
  • Instagram: @njshel
  • LinkedIn & Facebook: NJ Shelsby


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Connect with the Clutter-Free Mind Show


NJ:

if you think about, back in caveman days, right? A woman is out with the kids picking berries and there's this noise is rustling in the bushes. That is a danger signal. And so she goes into this fight or flight mode and she's gonna, grab the kids and run off or whatnot. That same biological process goes on every time our phone dings. And so we are just totally not wired for it. However, we're wired for connection because if you were part of the, clan and they got upset with you and they kicked you out, you would die. So we're biologically wired for connection.

Zita:

If you've ever felt like, there's never enough time in the day, your to do list grows faster than you can check things off, you're definitely not alone. Our relationship with time isn't just about productivity, it's deeply connected to our mental clarity. Um, and our stress levels and even our sense of purpose. And on today's episode of the clutter free mind show, we're diving into time management and a bit of neuroscience around it. We'll explore how our brains process time tasks and priorities and how small and practical shifts can help you reclaim control and then reduce that overwhelm we just talked about and finally feel. Like you're running your day instead of the other way around. Our first guest is N. J. Shelsby, and she brings a unique perspective that beautifully combines neuroscience based productivity with real world application of it. She is a time freedom coach and a Microsoft veteran. And she has spent over 20 years understanding how our modern work environment impacts our brain's ability to focus and maintain that clarity that we long for. And what I find particularly exciting about our conversation today is how NJ's approach aligns with the theme of the clutter free mind. Because mental clarity isn't just about meditation and mindfulness. It's also about understanding how our brain processes demands on our time and attention. And also it is about creating systems that work with our natural rhythms rather than against them. So NJ, welcome to the clutter free mind show. How are you today?

NJ:

I'm great. Thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to having this conversation.

Zita:

Yeah, it's an honor to have you on the podcast. Thank you for joining me

NJ:

It's an honor to be your 1st guest.

Zita:

Thank you so much. Let's just dive right into it. You've spent over 20 years helping people use technology to save time. Including a big stretch at Microsoft, which is I think very interesting, especially that these days I'm using Microsoft a lot and I'd love to hear more about the personal side of that journey that you had there in that, 20 years and what experiences shaped your understanding of how our brains process time and how that impacts our mental clarity. And our ability to hit big goals in our lives and still just staying present.

NJ:

Yeah, I'd say this journey started early on in my career. I went to a Franklin Covey seminar. They're not in existence anymore as they were done then and. It was like, you know, the clouds parted and the sunshine. I mean, I just had this sense of peace and clarity. Everything was easier to do and manage. I just could juggle so much more and just felt like I was on top of it all. It just felt peaceful and calming and then technology accelerated and. That dichotomy that I could see in as things were getting more stressful and more convoluted. So it was this constant comparison of, wait a minute, I know this is possible because here's what I felt, but here's what I'm currently experiencing. And so it has been this journey of trying to reclaim that and understanding how. Each new app that we add in each new channels of information coming into you. You know, you think about it. It used to be as someone who was like an executive or a business owner. They would sit their desk and their secretary would guard anything coming into them and they would have. Their calendar out that their secretary had guarded and only put important meetings on their phone was there, but they only took phone calls that their secretary put through to them. They had a box that their mail had been screened and only the important things. So, if you contrast that to today. And all the different channels that information is coming at us and demanding our focus and attention. It's really no wonder that we feel scattered. And it's that trying to keep up with all of that, that just our brains are not able to handle that. And so my work is really about how we live in this modern world. And not have it leave us feeling totally scattered feeling like, you know, we're have that low grade anxiety that we're about to miss something and it's just going to fall and hit the floor and everything's going to fall apart.

Zita:

Yes. Oh my God. And when you mentioned that I haven't thought about it for a long time, how executives worked back at that time, but you're so right. And I recall a movie about someone losing a notebook, I think, an executive. person and it was his life and everything. And I'm just wondering they felt overwhelmed back then already. Um, and we added on top of it since then and just keep adding, to be

NJ:

exactly. And that's where it's really interesting. And that when you compare and contrast the different situations and, and as I said feeling overwhelmed and then doing the things that they taught us in the seminar. And I felt peace. And so I have to keep going back and what was it? And the world is different than what it was then. But the concepts are the same. And so 1 of the ways that you felt. At peace with that system was you were clear on what was important to you because it's so easy to get distracted by all the noise that's going on if you're not clear on what your values and goals are. The other thing was you had this notebook. Everything went into you were only allowed to have that 1 calendar because back then people would have a desk calendar. They'd have a family calendar on the fridge. And maybe you even have, you know, another camera for your kids appointments or, you know, their. Their games and such, and it was hard for the brain to keep track of all of that. And by consolidating that into one calendar, having all of your notes into one place and one task list, what it, that's what gave the sense of peace. Now you contrast that to today, where Okay, most of us have one calendar, so that's not the problem, but we have to do's sitting in a Facebook message, a, you know, chat that we're having with somebody on Instagram, or text messages, emails. Maybe there's a document out on our google drive that we need to do something with. But the point is, is that these this information and things that we have to do is spread all out. And our brain is trying to keep track of it all so that we don't forget anything. And that's what makes us feel like we're kind of going a little we're going to drop something that anxiety. Our brain is constantly scanning in order to see what's important, you know, trying to protect us from forgetting anything.

Zita:

Yes. And you talk a lot about why ambitious women always feel like they're running behind talking about all the tasks and, and you know, the multiple calendars, because to be honest, I still don't have a consolidated calendar, so that might change things.

NJ:

We got to get on that.

Zita:

Yes. From a neuroscience perspective, what's actually happening in our brains when we are stuck in this constant chase mode and how does that mess with our mental clarity? What do you think?

NJ:

right. Well, I mean, having all of this stuff, it's like, think of a computer when you've got all these tabs open and the computer slows down. Well, it's the same thing with our brains, right? We're everything that we, we look at a message, right? And they're like, oh, I'm gonna get back to that later. I just wanted to check my email to make sure there was nothing important. But now your brain has all of these little hooks of things that it has to do and it's constantly scanning worried about whether or not you're going to forget anything. And it's like, oh, my God, there's so much here that I'm afraid I'm going to forget something. So it keeps scanning and. You're, you, you're kept in this fight or flight mode. So your limbic system hijacks your prefrontal cortex. Your prefrontal cortex is what you need in order to settle down and focus and do the deep working. But this constant fear that we're going to forget something jumping from one thing to the other, you know, Oh, let me check, see if there's any Facebook messages. Oh, let me check Instagram. Let me check LinkedIn. Let me check it. You know, that this fear that something's going to drop, we're not able to focus in that mode. And when you're not able to focus, you're not completing things. You're not getting it done. So the list just keeps getting longer and longer and you feel more. Stressed

Zita:

Yes. Yeah, exactly. And I also think that, I mean, you mentioned the prefrontal cortex and I, I read a lot about brains these days And the classical view on neuroscience, they said that we had an older brain and then we had a newer brain on it and, and whatnot, but actually we have one brain and all the neurons in our one brain are just connected to each other and they work all the time and they can do a lot of things and they can take over tasks from the other one if one falls down, but. It has its, and capacity

NJ:

Let me give you an analogy. Do you remember the iPhone 6? It worked perfectly fine. Like, oh, my, this is the latest and greatest. Wow. This is such a powerful phone. And then a couple of years later, everything that you're trying to do, it's like. Oh, it's slow. The battery's dying now the phone was still fine. The problem was the software, right? The software that was running through it, it couldn't handle it. Similarly, our brains are amazing. But the lifestyle that we're living and what's running through our brains is taxing it. It can't keep up. We're not taking, I mean, just think about something like not even that long ago, every night you would sweep the floor, this repetitive motion where you weren't thinking, washing the dishes. It was this meditative process, weeding, crocheting, sewing. These are all things that. Allow the brain to just kind of calm down and, and restore. We don't do anything like that anymore. We're looking at screens. We are watching TV shows that produce anxiety in our bodies from either, you know, we watch horror TV shows, drama, the reality TV, right? It's all about getting an emotional response in some way. And so we're just constantly lit up. That is exhausting. Not. I mean, just remember when you had when your kids were little, if they did not take a nap, they were a different child. It would be like, what is this?

Zita:

It's true to this day and I think it's true today for me as well.

NJ:

exactly because they, you know, we need that downtime to, to restore our ability to function. Well, and we have max that out to the extreme these days.

Zita:

Yes, that's true. And that's what I'm all about. When you mentioned this evening routine of crocheting and, you know, just doing all the slow things, I got goosebumps because I miss those days when I, when I spent evenings with my grandparents, when I was a kid it was just silence and you could hear the clock ticking and it was so calming for me, I'm that person who gets her calmness from silence. And I think that as this is a clutter free mind show, so I, I seek out things that help you declutter your

NJ:

yeah. Yeah. It's funny that you said that though, about the silence because. We were visiting my in laws back in December, early December, and they have the TV on all the time. Now, my husband and I, we were like, oh, we cannot even think please turn it off. But then they felt anxious not having the distraction. So it's interesting how our brains process that.

Zita:

Yeah, exactly. How, how different brains process

NJ:

Yeah, yeah, or it's what you get used to, right? Like, okay, this isn't this is normal. And I don't want to think about anything really deep and important. So, like, distract me from the silence because the silence is it's a way of it's a restorative thing. Right? But it's also things are going to come up in the silence that a lot of times people, they don't want to deal with that kind of stuff. So distract me from any of that deep thought.

Zita:

Yes, that's true. That's why some people hate meditation. Absolutely. So I can understand that. And it's so interesting that we talk about the old days and Technology and how it, you know, drowns us. And I know that you're all about AI and just to create freedom with the help of AI, but for a lot of people, a lot of us, it feels like we're drowning, especially because it just comes from each direction. And we're drowning in daily tasks and we get all these productivity tools and then AI options from everywhere. And you get AI course here, AI course there. You don't even know what to use anymore. Can you tell us how can we be smarter about this? So we're actually creating more mental space instead of just piling on more to our plate.

NJ:

Absolutely. That is a real situation people are dealing with. I get new things all the time in my inbox and it can feel totally overwhelming. And, and when you feel that overwhelmed, you want to just like, I'm just going to put my head in the sand and ignore this because it's just too much, but there are things that you can ignore. And there's things that you can't. And if you think back like 30 years ago, Maybe, yeah, about 30 years ago, that's when the internet really started catching on. And there were people who were like, Oh, this is too overwhelming. I don't know what to do with this. So I'm going to do nothing. And they really got left behind, whether they, their career skills, they didn't have, you know, marketable skills anymore. So they couldn't find jobs. If they had a business, their business suffered. And I feel like AI is like that, that if you don't embrace this, you're going to be left behind. That being said, you don't need to do it all. There's all of these different options out there. 80 percent and I use AI all day every day and 80 percent of the work that I do is with chat GPT. So, my advice would be ignore everything else and just start with chat GPT and master that and, once you've mastered that, if there's particular scenarios, you know, needing it for editing meetings or something, then go in and add something else on. But once you master that it'll be much easier to add something else in.

Zita:

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And maybe if it's not JetGPT, then just one tool that you're familiar with, right? Like just choose one and stick with it

NJ:

I mean, there's, there's really the 3 main ones are Microsoft's copilot, which is also built on chat.

Zita:

yes.

NJ:

It's just then modified for Microsoft's tools and then Google's Gemini and then chat. I find that when I'm experimenting, I really, I get the most results with CheckGPT and I feel like it's kind of like having an assistant, a researcher and a strategist all wrapped up in the one working for me. Now, I do the paid version. I don't even know whether I paid 20, 25, 30 a month somewhere in there. there's no way I could get some an assistant to do all that. I have that person do for. I mean, the level of work it does. I couldn't get them to do it for 30 an hour, much less 30 for the entire month. I mean, it saves me hours every day.

Zita:

Yeah. I'm in the process at my workplace, I'm in the process of testing chat GPT and Claude AI for just a further work and just further purposes just to choose which one we will go with in the future. And it's such an interesting experiment that I'm doing, but yeah, I, I agree with you that. If you get creative, it can help you tremendously with a lot of things. And I'm, I'm part of the improvement team at a company that I'm working for. And we always talk about it, that how. Some people are afraid that AI will just

NJ:

Take their jobs.

Zita:

yes, take the jobs and kick them out of the, of the marketplace. On the other hand, I feel like we will have more time for personal connection. We will have more time to be present and, and just be humans. At least that's how I look at AI at this moment.

NJ:

Yeah, I mean, I don't I don't think the jobs are necessarily going to go away so much as they'll change

Zita:

Mm hmm.

NJ:

and. It's really about becoming good prompt engineers

Zita:

Yes.

NJ:

it's, it's kind of like this, imagine you hired or you got an intern and this intern is really smart. They've got a Harvard MBA and they are coming to work for you free of charge for a month.

Zita:

Mm hmm.

NJ:

How much value you get out of that? Harvard trained, person is going to be based upon how well you tell them about your business. How well you clarify exactly what you're looking for, giving them information that. Is specific to your business and what you ask them to do, because there's a lot of interns that sit around doing nothing because they haven't been assigned any tasks. And so it's the same thing with AI. That you can't just like, if you have an intern and you give them an assignment and it comes back and it's like, oh, that wasn't what I was looking for. Do you just like, all right, this guy, he's gone. No, you're like, okay, well, thanks. This is, this is great. What about, changing this up or taking it in this different direction? And so I think that people have to understand that that's what AI needs. And so that's still a person doing that. And so as opposed to a person spending hours going through and doing a report, they can spend a couple of minutes directing AI to Adequately do this report for them.

Zita:

Exactly. And the time that it saves for us, as I mentioned already, you're working with ambitious women they are always racing against the clock. So time saving is just brilliant when you're using AI and all these women feel like no matter how much they do, it's never enough. But you say that the real problem isn't a lack of time, really. It's how our brains are wired. So can you just break down how your time freedom framework works with the brain instead of against it? And what are the key shifts that help people finally stop feeling behind and start making real progress?

NJ:

Absolutely. So you're absolutely right. This is a really big problem that we have today because we're working in a way that works against our brain. And so the 3 things, the 3 pillars of the time freedom framework. Our 1st is about protecting our focus. As I said before, you have all these things coming at you from different directions and if we can't. Focus, we can't complete anything. We need to do things like putting our phone and do not disturb mode putting your phone in another room, not checking email until scheduled time. So that we're not checking it constantly putting up. Boundaries that allow our brain to go into a mode of focus and not just that level of checking, checking, checking, checking what's coming in. Is there anything I'm missing? The second step is about creating a. A bucket of time to do deep work now. Some people are morning people. Some people are evening people and it can the time is independent of you. What is critical is that you set up these buckets of time in 90 minute segments is the ideal time frame that there's. Not other things going on. You're not doing the piddly little tasks, but that you're doing those things that require thinking time because your brain has to get into, the flow and you can't get into the flow and 5, 10 minutes segments. You need a larger bucket of time in order to do that. So that is the 2nd, part of the framework. And the 3rd one is about, Yeah. Not trying to do it all as women, we have this tendency to feel like we have to do it all. I have a friend who she has a young child and she has a babysitter that comes in and the babysitter will be there and she's paying like 20 an hour for this babysitter and the kid goes to sleep and then the babysitter does her schoolwork. Work because, she doesn't feel right asking them to do, the dishes or whatever. And I think that's very typical of women. Like, oh, no, no, no, no. I just have to do it all myself. And so the more that we can outsource, especially things that are outside our zone of genius. So, whether we hire a team or, you know, I mean, I hire a lot of neighborhood teenagers to do stuff for me around the house and around the yard. And then a big piece of that is also AI, AI can outsource so many things. I was the president of our homeowners association. And I had promised at last year's annual meeting that I was going to do a refresh of all of our documents and I've been procrastinating on it because it was just, I knew it was going to be a ton of work. And frankly, wasn't a priority for me, the annual meetings coming up again. And I'm like, oh, okay. I've got to sit down and do this. And I mean, we're talking about weeks of work going through these documents and refreshing them. I did it in 2 days instead of 2 weeks using AI.

Zita:

That's brilliant.

NJ:

Yeah, so, just protecting your focus, creating buckets of time to do deep work, and outsourcing everything you can to AI if you don't have a team, um, or anybody else that you can.

Zita:

Yeah. This is such a great advice. And I think that, focus is very big, like starting with focus, as you say, because we, we tend to. Just scatter ourselves, as you said at the beginning, just checking notifications everywhere, because it's all around us. And we really have to take care of it ourselves because no one else is going to do it for us, you know, if anything, then companies will just, shove even more things down our throats and

NJ:

Yeah, they only care about our stress level and are overwhelmed when it impacts their bottom line. That's it. I mean, we have to take care of ourselves.

Zita:

exactly. Just take the wheel and take responsibility, right? When we're feeling mentally cluttered, sometimes it's, um, it's so hard to know where to start. And I know it deeply because I have ADHD and executive dysfunction is huge when you have ADHD. So what's one small practical step that can create a noticeable shift in both our time management and mental clarity?

NJ:

One simple change that you can do is not checking your phone and your email continuously throughout the day. Because it increases that mental load, that concern of what you're forgetting like, okay, I have to remember to do that. Oh, you have to remember to do that. If you don't know, it's there. There's nothing on your brain to worry about and you're better able to focus and as a corollary to that, don't check your phone. Don't just check. Oh, is there anything important set aside 15 minutes now for everybody? It's different. How often? Yeah, there are days. I don't look at my phone until, like, 1 o'clock now. Not everybody can do that, but the point is, you never just check. You always have at least a couple of minutes that whatever is there, you respond to it in some way. So, if there's a message, you, you respond to it, even if you can't give them an answer, but you say,, I will look this information up and I'll get back to you by 4 o'clock today. And then you put that on your task list and you say, respond to so and so about whatever so that your brain's not trying to protect you from forgetting it. There's there's none of those you're trying to reduce those open loops as David Allen calls them that are out there that your brain's trying to protect you from forgetting about.

Zita:

Oh, when you said that open loops, I'm very visual. I just visualized open loops in my brain. And when you have so many, they just tangle together, right? And then detangling them at the end of the day is so overwhelming. And then you, you maybe don't even start. And then that's how you forget everything. So that's a really, really good advice. A couple of years ago, I think it was around 2020 I keep saying 2000 when it's like 2000, 20, 20 years later. I started a challenge because I realized that I pick up my phone too often during the day while my kids were around me, and I didn't want to be that role model for them. So. I called it the chickpea challenge and I posted about it on my personal Facebook page and people didn't really respond. One person said that don't make me suffer. Put out the jar and then whenever I picked up my phone, just to check something, then I put a chickpea in, the jar. And then when I pick my phone up to take a call, or write an important message that You know that really had to be done. Then I put a dried bean into it So it was very visual because by the end of the day I could see like literally how many times I picked my phone up and it was jarring no pun intended because because When I started it, I obviously, was very aware of it and I tried to do it as little, as possible. But I still had a lot of chickpeas in there., We have all these apps and, and on the iPhone, you have the screen time app and everything, but that requires your phone to check it. This jar was really, really good because then I didn't have to pick up my phone to, you know,

NJ:

to see how you were doing. Yeah.

Zita:

to see how I'm doing, and it was such a, an eye opening experience for me. And that's when, when I started to, to just be more mindful of my time of my usage of my phone and everything. And just to tell the listeners that you, you walk your talk, I sent, I sent you an email with the, with the link of our recording and you haven't checked it yet because it's, you know, it's a morning. So yes,

NJ:

yeah,

Zita:

that was a really great idea.

NJ:

and it's, I think most of us know in theory, like, this is important, right? It makes sense. Our brains were not wired for this. I mean, if you think about, back in caveman days, right? A woman is out with the kids picking berries and there's this noise is rustling in the bushes. That is a danger signal. And so she goes into this fight or flight mode and she's gonna, grab the kids and run off or whatnot. That same biological process goes on every time our phone dings. And so we are just totally not wired for it. However, we're wired for connection because if you were part of the, clan and they got upset with you and they kicked you out, you would die. So we're biologically wired for connection. So those 2, they're fighting against each other because, oh, if I don't check my phone and my sister text message me, she's going to be mad at me. And that's those against their survival instinct. And so we have these 2 things warring against each other. And then you add in the dopamine hit.

Zita:

Oh

NJ:

when you check your phone and there's this great message there, you get to hit a dopamine and we've become dopamine X. And so unless you do a dopamine detox, you also have Going and driving, you checking your phone. And so, I don't think it's something that we should take lightly. I mean, it's an important step in our ability to feel calm and at peace. But it's not like, oh, I'm going to drink more water. we have to really think about this. There's two approaches to it. One is to make Slow, small, incremental changes so that every day you get a little bit better. And the other way is to just go through a detox. I also, in some of my programs, I do work where we process through that. anxiety that you feel like, oh, what if I'm missing out on something, what if somebody gets upset and there's a process that I take them through that eliminates that. 1 of my testimonials is something that I worked with who she had to check her phone 1st thing in the morning. She'd lose, 45 minutes every morning looking at her phone. And we went through this process and then, it would be hours later before she'd even think of checking her phone. once you pull out that conditioning that we are relying on that forces us to go grab your phone and it makes it easy. So. That is so just to make that point that it feels hard and it is hard and that's real, but it's not a constant struggle. Once you break that, then it's easy. And you don't think about it.

Zita:

Do you do this in a program like a basis for your time management practices or, or is it a separate program that you have?

NJ:

I sometimes I sell it as a separate program, but it is the basis because habit change is hard, right? Brains are wired for more of the same. They're not wired for us to just keep changing our habits. And so it is something that you have to put a little bit of work into. And so, in my programs, I want to make it as easy as possible for them to be able to change those that's that are eating up their time, making them feel stressed and overwhelmed.

Zita:

Yeah. It's really nice. I wanted to ask you a question. I'm just wondering if you already answered it or not, but if you could help everyone understand one little thing about their mind. That would bring them more peace and clarity. What would it be?

NJ:

It would be that your brain is not built for modern life. it's built for survival, and we have to understand that and not take what it drives us to do who seriously, because we're not really in an emergency state for most of our lives, it's very rare, but that modern life is triggering us to think. feel like our survival is being impacted. And so we have this tendency to feel this Urge that we have to do something or what feels right. We have to just, follow our brains and do that. And so just remember that it's kind of like the overprotective mom that won't let her kid play on the monkey bars. It's like you're, it's not, there's not a real threat there, even if they fall and they get bruised or they get a broken arm, like it all, it heals. It's all good. And so our brains are doing the same thing to us. And so we have to understand that that's just the programming and step back and take control and decide for ourselves with our prefrontal cortex, what we want out of life. How we want our lives to be, and then establish the habits to make that happen.

Zita:

This is wonderful. Thank you so much. Where can people find you?

NJ:

My website is nj she be.com. I'm on Instagram at nj, SHEL, LinkedIn, just my name, Facebook, my name. and also, we talked a lot about AI and if anyone is interested in some ways. That they can use AI to save time. I have a free guide how I save, 10 plus hours a week using AI and they can find that at njshellsby. com slash gift.

Zita:

Oh, thank you so much. I will link it in the show notes for our listeners.

NJ:

Great.

Zita:

Thank you, NJ, for this conversation. It was really nice to have you.

NJ:

Thank you. I have really enjoyed talking with you today.

Zita:

Wow, what a great conversation with Anj today. I loved how she broke down, why we are all feeling so scattered. Our brains simply aren't built for the constant notifications and endless to-do lists of modern life. So let's take care of our beautiful brains and. Try to manage those little open loops a little bit better. Thanks so much for tuning in to the first episode of the CLU Free Mind Show. If this conversation helped you, please follow the show on your favorite podcast platform because there are more. Beautiful conversations coming in the near future, and please sign up for my newsletter at sign up dot clutter free mind.com for more insights and resources about our brains. Until next time.